Comments on: Amazed by Google Books http://nerdlets.org/2009/02/16/amazed-by-google-books/ Christianity/Culture/Computing Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:49:02 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: The Open Scriptures Project | Nerdlets http://nerdlets.org/2009/02/16/amazed-by-google-books/comment-page-1/#comment-714 The Open Scriptures Project | Nerdlets Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:49:52 +0000 http://nerdlets.org/?p=1347#comment-714 [...] for reading and browsing biblical texts. There is a lot of data online, and the continuing digitilazation of texts means the wealth of data is growing every [...] [...] for reading and browsing biblical texts. There is a lot of data online, and the continuing digitilazation of texts means the wealth of data is growing every [...]

]]> By: tommy http://nerdlets.org/2009/02/16/amazed-by-google-books/comment-page-1/#comment-698 tommy Tue, 17 Feb 2009 14:52:36 +0000 http://nerdlets.org/?p=1347#comment-698 The quality of the scans varies by the book. The quality of PG that I mentioned above is pretty rough at points (makes me want to take a class on text criticism), but at least I have it without driving to Duke. The LS scan is particularly bad. It seems that some of the pages are not scans at all but pictures, and the scans themselves are low resolution. The technology isn't perfect yet, and scans are inconsistent because they are archived from a variety of sources, and there is no "training" provided on how to do it, etc. But it was available to download from the link you provided. Do you not see the "Download" link? Also, that was not the only scan of LS available. Here is a better one: <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=nBwQAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=greek-english+lexicon)&ei=G86aSdifMZXSlQSn38HoCQ#PPP1,M1" target="_blank">http://books.google.com/books?id=nBwQAAAAYAAJ&amp...</a> . I think it's little-liddell though. Browse around. Scans are provided by libraries and other sources that are participating with Google, so maybe there is a better version available. The real problem is that the Greek at least is not searchable, which makes it difficult to find things. Still no replacement for the actual book, at least for Greek, but it's showing promise, and for rare items it is irreplaceable! The quality of the scans varies by the book. The quality of PG that I mentioned above is pretty rough at points (makes me want to take a class on text criticism), but at least I have it without driving to Duke.

The LS scan is particularly bad. It seems that some of the pages are not scans at all but pictures, and the scans themselves are low resolution. The technology isn't perfect yet, and scans are inconsistent because they are archived from a variety of sources, and there is no "training" provided on how to do it, etc.

But it was available to download from the link you provided. Do you not see the "Download" link?

Also, that was not the only scan of LS available. Here is a better one: http://books.google.com/books?id=nBwQAAAAYAAJ&amp... . I think it's little-liddell though. Browse around. Scans are provided by libraries and other sources that are participating with Google, so maybe there is a better version available.

The real problem is that the Greek at least is not searchable, which makes it difficult to find things. Still no replacement for the actual book, at least for Greek, but it's showing promise, and for rare items it is irreplaceable!

]]> By: Ben D. http://nerdlets.org/2009/02/16/amazed-by-google-books/comment-page-1/#comment-697 Ben D. Tue, 17 Feb 2009 12:25:25 +0000 http://nerdlets.org/?p=1347#comment-697 Tommy, Is the digitized version only available to read online? I downloaded the .pdf version of and old version of LSJ (<a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=moTvy2iYtcEC&printsec=frontcover&dq=greek-english+lexicon)" target="_blank">http://books.google.com/books?id=moTvy2iYtcEC&amp...</a> but it is the actual scan of the old book, which is hard to read at many points. Is this the normal way they do things, where the digitization is not available for download? Ben Tommy,
Is the digitized version only available to read online? I downloaded the .pdf version of and old version of LSJ (http://books.google.com/books?id=moTvy2iYtcEC&amp... but it is the actual scan of the old book, which is hard to read at many points. Is this the normal way they do things, where the digitization is not available for download?
Ben

]]> By: tommy http://nerdlets.org/2009/02/16/amazed-by-google-books/comment-page-1/#comment-693 tommy Mon, 16 Feb 2009 15:28:02 +0000 http://nerdlets.org/?p=1347#comment-693 Yes I do like Project Guttenburg. Excellent stuff! Thanks for the link Yes I do like Project Guttenburg. Excellent stuff! Thanks for the link

]]> By: tommy http://nerdlets.org/2009/02/16/amazed-by-google-books/comment-page-1/#comment-691 tommy Mon, 16 Feb 2009 14:53:02 +0000 http://nerdlets.org/?p=1347#comment-691 Yes "I googled" can sound lame... How about "I obtained it via an OCR imprint provided by an international network of scholars." Yes "I googled" can sound lame… How about "I obtained it via an OCR imprint provided by an international network of scholars."

]]> By: Ros http://nerdlets.org/2009/02/16/amazed-by-google-books/comment-page-1/#comment-690 Ros Mon, 16 Feb 2009 14:49:15 +0000 http://nerdlets.org/?p=1347#comment-690 Yes, that makes sense. I think that if the point of the reference is to allow anyone else to look it up and see what you are seeing then it's a lot easier just to cite as if it is a hard copy. And actually, it is no different from working from a photocopied section, I suppose. I am just nervous that someone (by which I mean my external examiner) will come along and ask when it was that I had access to some exceptionally obscure text hidden away in the Vatican and I'll have to explain that I just googled it. But I'm sure you're right. ;) Yes, that makes sense. I think that if the point of the reference is to allow anyone else to look it up and see what you are seeing then it's a lot easier just to cite as if it is a hard copy. And actually, it is no different from working from a photocopied section, I suppose.

I am just nervous that someone (by which I mean my external examiner) will come along and ask when it was that I had access to some exceptionally obscure text hidden away in the Vatican and I'll have to explain that I just googled it. But I'm sure you're right. ;)

]]> By: tommy http://nerdlets.org/2009/02/16/amazed-by-google-books/comment-page-1/#comment-689 tommy Mon, 16 Feb 2009 14:42:16 +0000 http://nerdlets.org/?p=1347#comment-689 As if the hard copy was in front of me (since they are scans of the original that include page ##s). I guess in the interest of full disclosure you can could list the work as-normal in your bibliography and add a link to your online source at the end, but that seems unnecessary to me provided the source is an original scan. If the source is NOT a scan (like a plain-text version of the Early Church Fathers) AND you need to reference page numbers (a lot of times for ancient material you don't, since there are standard subdivisions similar to biblical chapter-verse notation) everything changes, but it really depends on the primary source. In general I follow SBL guidelines. They have some specifics on Ancient Christian Writings on p 84 ff. Am I making sense? As if the hard copy was in front of me (since they are scans of the original that include page ##s). I guess in the interest of full disclosure you can could list the work as-normal in your bibliography and add a link to your online source at the end, but that seems unnecessary to me provided the source is an original scan.

If the source is NOT a scan (like a plain-text version of the Early Church Fathers) AND you need to reference page numbers (a lot of times for ancient material you don't, since there are standard subdivisions similar to biblical chapter-verse notation) everything changes, but it really depends on the primary source. In general I follow SBL guidelines. They have some specifics on Ancient Christian Writings on p 84 ff.

Am I making sense?

]]> By: Ros http://nerdlets.org/2009/02/16/amazed-by-google-books/comment-page-1/#comment-688 Ros Mon, 16 Feb 2009 14:22:33 +0000 http://nerdlets.org/?p=1347#comment-688 Tommy, how do you reference these in your dissertation? As if you had the hard copy of the book in front of you or as an internet source? Tommy, how do you reference these in your dissertation? As if you had the hard copy of the book in front of you or as an internet source?

]]> By: tommy http://nerdlets.org/2009/02/16/amazed-by-google-books/comment-page-1/#comment-687 tommy Mon, 16 Feb 2009 13:57:15 +0000 http://nerdlets.org/?p=1347#comment-687 The issues are tricky for books not in the open domain. Google recentrly reached a settlement with some folks regarding that issue (see link in the article, or Related Posts links). With open-domain books, however, the issues are not complicated, and the benefits are amazing. The issues are tricky for books not in the open domain. Google recentrly reached a settlement with some folks regarding that issue (see link in the article, or Related Posts links).

With open-domain books, however, the issues are not complicated, and the benefits are amazing.

]]> By: Joshua Scotton http://nerdlets.org/2009/02/16/amazed-by-google-books/comment-page-1/#comment-686 Joshua Scotton Mon, 16 Feb 2009 13:55:59 +0000 http://nerdlets.org/?p=1347#comment-686 Project Gutenberg have some greek sources as well: http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/languages/el There isn't a great deal there but it may be helpful to somebody. Project Gutenberg have some greek sources as well: http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/languages/el

There isn’t a great deal there but it may be helpful to somebody.

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